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    vladtepes

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    SELU and the Nation

    Post by vladtepes on Thu Oct 01, 2009 1:36 am

    As stated in the founding post of SELU, Ali Rahimi Ferdosinezhad made the point that SELU can serve a greater purpose in eFRoSEA than as just a fast growing labor union. First off, the role of SELU is primarily in protection of the worker. The primary cornerstone of any labor union is protection of the worker. Though some claim the government already does this to some degree, why should it be the government that has a monopoly of protection for the worker? Monopolization serves only a few while to diversify by signing up with SELU would provide better coverage of the worker. It also eliminates the possible problems down the road when a future government is at odds with the ideas of labor.

    But I digress. One of those aspects under which SELU can serve eFRoSEA is in the realm of politics. For a good while, joint DAP/FUP politics have run our country. Why, then, many ask, is there a need for a political arm of SELU?

    Here are a few of the ideas a SELU party would support:

    1. In favor of increasing taxes on importation for the weapons industry so prices could be lowered for wargames and times of national emergency. This idea has received criticism from some, though when this trend of over production reverses itself, the government and eFRoSEA will be at a huge advantage for their preparation.

    2. In favor of making a proposal which should mandate that most issues not of national emergency be discussed first in the open political part of the forums before moving on to be voted upon.

    3. In favor of increasing the number of hospitals in eFRoSEA so that more regions can be populations centers. This will allow more citizens to live in different places and so finally congressional elections will not always be a game of who can move more people the fastest to differing locations to be elected by a handful of votes.

    4. In favor of either disband the mentoring program because it is in a sorry state and the government has enough to worry about and pay for. Besides, as Nagyzee has said, private initiatives can be more effective than government ones.

    5. In favor of aggressively seeking new baby booms. This would slightly decrease tax revenue in the short term, but if we do this right and keep active citizens out of this, the tax benefits will far outweigh the temporary shortfall.

    6. In favor of solid and effective military funding with the option of possible strategic defensive fortifications explored.

    7. In favor of a large national health service to cover everyone in eFRoSEA unconditionally whether they participate in wargames or not.

    8. In favor of promoting the idea of labor unions in all eRepublik nations as a way of helping all eCitizens.

    Part of any good Social/Political movement is listening to others, which is exactly what I'd like now! Please! Passerby! What do you think? Smiley

    -vladtepes
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    Nagyzee
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    Re: Non-Members discussion room

    Post by Nagyzee on Thu Oct 01, 2009 7:04 pm

    My take on these shortly, though I might not be the target audience:

    1. Increasing the import taxes won't lower the price of weapons. In fact it might slightly increase it.

    2. Yeah, that forum part could use some restructuring.

    3. Already worked on.Smiley

    4. Hard to say. Something really has to be done about the mentoring program though. Going private with that has its risks, too. (Like mentoring could develop into a race between parties and the fact that most company owners can't mentor their workers because of the language barrier.)

    6. You mean defensive systems? I think they are largely useless.

    7. See my article regarding this.Smiley You'd probably have to increase taxes to finance this one.
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    vladtepes

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    Re: Non-Members discussion room

    Post by vladtepes on Thu Oct 01, 2009 10:17 pm

    Nagyzee wrote:My take on these shortly, though I might not be the target audience:

    1. Increasing the import taxes won't lower the price of weapons. In fact it might slightly increase it.

    2. Yeah, that forum part could use some restructuring.

    3. Already worked on.Smiley

    4. Hard to say. Something really has to be done about the mentoring program though. Going private with that has its risks, too. (Like mentoring could develop into a race between parties and the fact that most company owners can't mentor their workers because of the language barrier.)

    6. You mean defensive systems? I think they are largely useless.

    7. See my article regarding this.Smiley You'd probably have to increase taxes to finance this one.

    Your take is always appreciated, sir! As is everyone else's! Smiley

    1. It would increase prices, but when current trends reverse eFRoSEA will be much better off.

    2. Glad you agree... Smiley

    3. It has been, but not nearly enough. Without more hospitals people will continue to concentrate in the areas that have them, thus leaving open the smaller regions to political power plays. Moving candidates around for election and winning congress seats with just a vote or two has got to stop. Hospitials will eliminate this over time and it will also induce some measures of regional pride.

    4. It's for sure an interesting proposition, though I think we could agree that the government should be rid of it at some point in the near future.

    6. Defensive systems only provide benefit for a nation that erects them, why impede this? Their benefits in military situations are as great as the army decideds they should be.

    7. In the short term taxes would have to be played around with but the long term provides for a better society. If people decide they think the point of this game is five clicks and caput, then they'll leave along with the money they generate. THAT will hurt the economy. If we can engage them and keep them healthy, we can have a fuller richer community. Having that will far outweigh any tax adjustment in the short term.
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    Nagyzee
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    Re: Non-Members discussion room

    Post by Nagyzee on Thu Oct 01, 2009 10:39 pm

    1. I don't see how. Weapon imports are already very low. There's no significant foreign competition to cut out.

    3. Hospitals cost 250+20 gold and upwards when buying from foreign companies. It's a lot of money. Also even eThais are reluctant to support placing a hospital in a Thai region which leaves us with Sarawak as the only place where a new hospital could be installed.

    6. Okay, so do you know what defensive systems do and what benefit that gives in the current war module? You have essentially avoided the answer with empty phrases.

    7. I think the most effective way to keep people in the game is through the community and not through some money and other transfers. Maybe I'm an idealist but I think people value more a friendly mail than game money or gifts. If people are bored, they'll quit anyhow no matter how much money you spend on them. And they won't make more clicks just because you pay them.
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    vladtepes

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    Re: Non-Members discussion room

    Post by vladtepes on Thu Oct 01, 2009 11:15 pm

    Nagyzee wrote:1. I don't see how. Weapon imports are already very low. There's no significant foreign competition to cut out.

    3. Hospitals cost 250+20 gold and upwards when buying from foreign companies. It's a lot of money. Also even eThais are reluctant to support placing a hospital in a Thai region which leaves us with Sarawak as the only place where a new hospital could be installed.

    6. Okay, so do you know what defensive systems do and what benefit that gives in the current war module? You have essentially avoided the answer with empty phrases.

    7. I think the most effective way to keep people in the game is through the community and not through some money and other transfers. Maybe I'm an idealist but I think people value more a friendly mail than game money or gifts. If people are bored, they'll quit anyhow no matter how much money you spend on them. And they won't make more clicks just because you pay them.

    1. When the trend of overproduction is reversed and things becomae scarce, these laws will have already help build up a system where eFRoSEA will be able to take advantage of a quality weapons price control system in the future.

    3. Would it be smart then to start a hospital company here in eFRoSEA and provide the jobs for more citizens? The company could be run in the private sector, though that would require a profit which might be hard to schieve with a hospital company. If it were run by the government then certainly the prices could be drastically reduced, though it would cost the nation a bit more in the short term. Either way, a hospital company in eFRoSEA is certianly an option that should be explored... That is if we don't already have one I am not aware about...

    6. I don't think I avoided anything. I simply said that defensive systems provide as many benefits as they are willing to be used. IF you find they are worthless, then they will serve no function, if carefully managed, then they will.

    7. I partially agree. By that I mean I feel that both monetary and community incentives should be used as often as needed to keep people interested. However, a national healthcare service for everyone cannot be viewed strictly as a measure to keep people in the game. And another thing, many many MANY eCitizens participate in wargames so as long as they are running the burden on a healthcare service would be light. If wargames are ever stopped for any reason, this would help in the interrum. And, I also doubt that many will become lazy and not participate in the wargames and simply ask for a handout. Those who do are probably in the same catergory that you descibe where they won't be staying long anyway.
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    Nagyzee
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    Re: Non-Members discussion room

    Post by Nagyzee on Fri Oct 02, 2009 12:45 am

    1. I don't understand. What price control system?

    3. We have already started a hospital company a few days ago. It was all over the media.Smiley
    You can find it here: http://www.erepublik.com/en/company/hospital-building-system-202358

    6. I'm becoming more and more convinced that you have no idea on what they do.Sad face I'll help you out: defensive systems simply raise the wall in the region which they are installed in and that's all. And because of the nature of battles no matter whether you have a defense system or no if you want to defend a region you have to make 1 more damage than the enemy (as you have to keep the battle in secure). All a defense system does is increasing the damage difference the attacker has to achieve in order to finish off the battle and increasing the chance of overtimes. What do you mean by carefully managed and being used?
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    vladtepes

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    Re: Non-Members discussion room

    Post by vladtepes on Fri Oct 02, 2009 1:36 am

    Nagyzee wrote:1. I don't understand. What price control system?

    3. We have already started a hospital company a few days ago. It was all over the media.Smiley
    You can find it here: http://www.erepublik.com/en/company/hospital-building-system-202358

    6. I'm becoming more and more convinced that you have no idea on what they do.Sad face I'll help you out: defensive systems simply raise the wall in the region which they are installed in and that's all. And because of the nature of battles no matter whether you have a defense system or no if you want to defend a region you have to make 1 more damage than the enemy (as you have to keep the battle in secure). All a defense system does is increasing the damage difference the attacker has to achieve in order to finish off the battle and increasing the chance of overtimes. What do you mean by carefully managed and being used?

    1. When the global economy changes paths in its cycle, from overproduction to scarcity, eFRoSEA will benefit by having this import tax on weapons (import tax on weapons would be sort of a future 'price control' system). This will allow eFRoSEA to be able to better keep weapons cheap in the long run.

    3. Really? IDK how I missed it then... Well, hopefully everyone can agree that this should be used to put hospitals in every eFRoSEA region (ideally) and at least several more (realistically).

    6. I'll explain again. I mean if proper defense structures are put into place they can be used for benefit when attacked. You said it yourself, "[...]is increasing the damage difference the attacker has to achieve in order to finish off the battle[...]" What I mean by proper management is put big defense systems in border areas and leave places that do not border other places without defense systems.
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    nicholas2000

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    Re: Non-Members discussion room

    Post by nicholas2000 on Fri Oct 02, 2009 11:26 pm

    1.I am with our Minister of Finance here, I can't tell what you are talking about

    3.A hospital in every region would be a gigantic waste of money, due to our small population.

    6.Defence systems are basically pointless. Any well-funded tank can rip apart a Q5 defence system. Assuring neutrality through diplomacy is far cheaper, and puts less of a burdon on the Government.


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    SHBalage

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    Re: Non-Members discussion room

    Post by SHBalage on Sat Oct 03, 2009 1:01 am

    About defense systems and walls to see clear:

    http://wiki.erepublik.com/index.php/Defense_System
    http://wiki.erepublik.com/index.php/Battlefield

    with love to vladtepes
    Ps.Game mechanics are usefull facts.

    jeff_shiiste

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    Re: Non-Members discussion room

    Post by jeff_shiiste on Sat Oct 03, 2009 3:01 am

    Defense systems are bad. In singapore, where they have been discussing buying a defense system, the president alone could do much more damage with that much gold. And were a neutral country thats poor. Why would we need that? To me it seems that a better investment would be stockpiling High Q weapons and gifts, incase we need it.
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    vladtepes

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    Re: Non-Members discussion room

    Post by vladtepes on Sat Oct 03, 2009 10:51 pm

    nicholas2000 wrote:1.I am with our Minister of Finance here, I can't tell what you are talking about

    3.A hospital in every region would be a gigantic waste of money, due to our small population.

    6.Defence systems are basically pointless. Any well-funded tank can rip apart a Q5 defence system. Assuring neutrality through diplomacy is far cheaper, and puts less of a burdon on the Government.

    1. It's essentially stockpiling and protection of the weapons industry. This will be beneficial in the future to keep prices of weapons stable when the economy changes cycle from surplus goods to a lack of goods.

    3. If we plan on continuing to expand, then we will need more hospitals so our population isn't all centred in one or two places. This endangers our country becuase it leaves a relatively small population much control over congressional elections.

    6. As for defense systems, I do whole heartedly agree with you that diplomacy is preferable in the extreme, though I don't think ruling out defense systems outright is a good idea. The more options the better.

    SHBalage wrote:About defense systems and walls to see clear:

    http://wiki.erepublik.com/index.php/Defense_System
    http://wiki.erepublik.com/index.php/Battlefield

    with love to vladtepes
    Ps.Game mechanics are usefull facts.

    The wiki is down... :p I still don't think eliminating the idea is a good option... Naturally, defense systems should be way down on the list b/c eFRoSEA has more pressing concerns, though I doubt writing off one option produces any good.


    jeff_shiiste wrote:Defense systems are bad. In singapore, where they have been discussing buying a defense system, the president alone could do much more damage with that much gold. And were a neutral country thats poor. Why would we need that? To me it seems that a better investment would be stockpiling High Q weapons and gifts, incase we need it.

    Like I said above, defense systems would be way down on the list but we shouldn't eliminate the option. Stockpiling is a good option also which should be considered for sure...
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    nicholas2000

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    Re: Non-Members discussion room

    Post by nicholas2000 on Sat Oct 03, 2009 11:15 pm

    Honestly, more hospitals would be a bad thing.

    Active people move around to vote. With our small population, it is unnessicary.


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    vladtepes

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    Re: Non-Members discussion room

    Post by vladtepes on Sun Oct 04, 2009 2:51 am

    nicholas2000 wrote:Honestly, more hospitals would be a bad thing.

    Active people move around to vote. With our small population, it is unnessicary.

    I disagree. When you say active people, do you mean people moved by a party in a strategy to caputre more political power? Or do you mean people moving randomly trying to vote for who knows? Somehow I doubt the second is true. Hospitals encourage people to stay put so theres less impetus to move around and screw with voting. Our population will continue to increase, so why not prepare hospitals now? Build the infrastructure and plan for the future and they (immigrants and babies) will come and stay...
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    nicholas2000

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    Re: Non-Members discussion room

    Post by nicholas2000 on Sun Oct 04, 2009 5:40 am

    When I say active people, I mean people who are actually playing the game log in, and do something beyond 2-clicking. Not the dim perspective you took on it.
    Nothing is "screwing" with the voting. People will always move to vote.

    It is simply not worth the Gold. Unless SELU can raise enough Gold to construct enough Q5 hospitals, to be put in every region, at no expense whatsoever to the government. But, that is thousands of gold, so good luck.


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    vladtepes

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    Re: Non-Members discussion room

    Post by vladtepes on Sun Oct 04, 2009 5:52 am

    nicholas2000 wrote:When I say active people, I mean people who are actually playing the game log in, and do something beyond 2-clicking. Not the dim perspective you took on it.
    Nothing is "screwing" with the voting. People will always move to vote.

    It is simply not worth the Gold. Unless SELU can raise enough Gold to construct enough Q5 hospitals, to be put in every region, at no expense whatsoever to the government. But, that is thousands of gold, so good luck.

    Ahhh, thank you for clarifying... I find it odd that people move to vote, I have played eRepublik for a long time and eFRoSEA is the exception I've seen on people moving to vote and having such a powerful effect on who gets elected. I think it would be wonderful if SELU could raise the gold, maybe in conjunction with the government, but that is something that would have to be discussed in serious negociation so that more than just a handful are involved with making that descision.
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    gen_tiger

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    Re: Non-Members discussion room

    Post by gen_tiger on Sun Oct 04, 2009 6:07 am

    vladtepes: The government currently is in progress of deploying 2 q5 hospital in our country, which bring up to the total of 3 q5 hospital in our country. The government have to deploy in phase so that it wouldn't burden the country finance too much. Of course, we do welcome any private initiative to fund another hospital for the nation. Big smile
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    vladtepes

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    Re: Non-Members discussion room

    Post by vladtepes on Sun Oct 04, 2009 6:26 am

    gen_tiger wrote:vladtepes: The government currently is in progress of deploying 2 q5 hospital in our country, which bring up to the total of 3 q5 hospital in our country. The government have to deploy in phase so that it wouldn't burden the country finance too much. Of course, we do welcome any private initiative to fund another hospital for the nation. Big smile

    Yes! I am very glad this is happening! I am sorry if the impression came across that this should be done all at once, though. I think that over time more hospitals should be put in place. Well, it's something that has to be discussed but I am not one to rule out options... Smiley

    jeff_shiiste

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    Re: Non-Members discussion room

    Post by jeff_shiiste on Mon Oct 05, 2009 6:28 am

    yay hospitals!!!! =D
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    Balkan Beast

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    Re: Non-Members discussion room

    Post by Balkan Beast on Mon Oct 05, 2009 7:06 am

    its been awhile since i have heard of the hospitals :/
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    vladtepes

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    Re: Non-Members discussion room

    Post by vladtepes on Mon Oct 05, 2009 10:24 pm

    jeff_shiiste wrote:yay hospitals!!!! =D

    That's the ticket!

    Balkan Beast wrote:its been awhile since i have heard of the hospitals :/

    As long as we get them, they can be silent, though I would like to see/hear something about the progress...
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    Adzhadi B. Adzman

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    Re: Non-Members discussion room

    Post by Adzhadi B. Adzman on Sat Oct 17, 2009 11:28 am

    I really do agree with vladtepes on the political issue... having more hospitals would keep the population in one place and make it harder for just a small population to control the political situation in eForSea.. Bravo to you vladtepes for highlighting it.
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    Gertrude Groan

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    Re: Non-Members discussion room

    Post by Gertrude Groan on Sat Oct 17, 2009 6:00 pm

    The idea of having a number of hospitals to allow people to live where they wish instead of where the government thinks they should live is an appealing one to me. The strategic location of hospitals is, however, more important I believe. We should do whatever we consider to be best for the defence of the country, within the budget we have. That may include having an unplaced hospital in stock at the hospital company.

    I am having difficulty understanding why the SELU, which is not a political party, is adopting these policies. Why not simply stand for a party that does embrace the majority of these policies and ideals? Many of them are shared by the FSP.
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    Ali Rahimi Ferdosinezhad

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    Re: Non-Members discussion room

    Post by Ali Rahimi Ferdosinezhad on Sun Oct 18, 2009 5:13 am

    Dear Gertrude,
    while back i had a discussion with my group members on a possibility of a party take over by our union. But we didn't want to jump into it and at the end of the session we decided to put it into discussion with other ecitizens through this forum, to make the necessary changes as they want them to be. Although we mostly just received answers from government officials who are more active naturally than the rest.

    cheers,
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    vladtepes

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    Re: Non-Members discussion room

    Post by vladtepes on Sun Oct 18, 2009 8:47 pm

    Adzhadi B. Adzman wrote:I really do agree with vladtepes on the political issue... having more hospitals would keep the population in one place and make it harder for just a small population to control the political situation in eForSea.. Bravo to you vladtepes for highlighting it.

    Thank you, Adzhadi. I think this is an issue which needs highlighted not only in eFRoSEA but in other nations with similar situations...

    Gertrude Groan wrote:The idea of having a number of hospitals to allow people to live where they wish instead of where the government thinks they should live is an appealing one to me. The strategic location of hospitals is, however, more important I believe. We should do whatever we consider to be best for the defence of the country, within the budget we have. That may include having an unplaced hospital in stock at the hospital company.

    I am having difficulty understanding why the SELU, which is not a political party, is adopting these policies. Why not simply stand for a party that does embrace the majority of these policies and ideals? Many of them are shared by the FSP.

    Thanks for the support on the hospitial question, GG, and you're right the strategic importance of hospitals should not ever be underestimated. As for the second part, I'll defer to Ali here...

    jeff_shiiste

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    Re: Non-Members discussion room

    Post by jeff_shiiste on Mon Oct 19, 2009 3:48 am

    Hospitals should be where people want to live i think. Malaysia is a neutral country, so i do not see a problem with strategic locations. But if we do want strategic locations, central thailand would be good. Well, all of thailand would be good i guess.

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